Re: cleaning projects

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Posted by Angel on July 21, 2002 at 23:22:33:

In Reply to: cleaning projects posted by Betty on July 20, 2002 at 09:39:38:

Well, Betty, since nobody came along to give you an answer I'll tell you what I do. I'm going to assume that we're talking about foiled and soldered projects, because leaded stuff is prety much cleaned by the cementing/whiting processs.

First off, cleaning is not the problem it's NEUTRALIZING the flux that's the most important part. Flux is a strong acid and you need to counteract it with a strong basic substance to prevent the white crud you'll get from oxidation of the solder later. The BEST (and cheapest) neutralizer you can use is sudsy AMMONIA....from the supermarket...straight, undiluted. I squirt it on from a water bottle with a sports spout because if you spray it your nose will hate you. Rinse your panel (or whatever) with HOT water. Squirt on some ammonia and scrub with a soft brush. Rinse in HOT water...wash with non-oily detergent like the basic Dawn brand...scrub lightly with that brush and rinse again. Let it air dry. (best brush I've found is a soft tire cleaning brush I found in an auto store...sort of looped shaped...other than that you can get a soft kitchen brush)

You'll find that ammonia makes your solder seams shine like silver. If you stop here, you can wax with a good carnuba wax (Mother's car wax or Kem-O-Pro) and you're done. If you want to patina BLACK...apply patina with cotton balls or a piece of cloth...quickly on both sides. RINSE IMMEDIATELY with tepid water to get the excess Patina off the glass (it can stain some kinds of glass if allowed to dry before you rinse). Let the piece air dry (don't rub) and sit for 12 to 24 hours. Black or pewter Patina is also acid and needs to be neutralized after the waiting period. Repeat the ammonia and Dawn detergent washing steps...let it dry and wax.

There are commercial neutralizers, but they aren't as strong and are more expensive than ammonia. Some people neutralize with Baking soda (bicarb) but it too is not as strong as ammonia and leaves a powdery residue that's often a pain to remove. NOTHING will give you the silvery shine on solder seams that ammonia does. Your Windex was partly a good step because it contains ammonia but the straight ammonia application will do a better job.

ALWAYS apply patina immediately after you solder and clean. Solder begins to oxidize as soon as it cools. Do it the same day or you'll need to scrub your seams with something to get them clean of oxidation. Some people use steel woll but I prefer a green scrubbie pad which won't leave tiny bits of steel wool in the solder that can rust (though with good planning I've rarely had to do this). Best way is to plan to solder and patina the same day.

If you use Copper patina DO NOT rinse or use water or neturalizer after you apply it and don't let it sit. Copper is just a surface application, not an acid that works into the metal like Black patina. Apply it with an abrasive pad when possible and really RUB it into the solder. Just blot off the excess copper patina and wax immediately. Some people even use simichrome polish BEFORE they apply copper patina and wax after. You need pristine, unoxidized solder seams to get a good copper finish. Simichrome is more of a cleaner than a wax and it helps. You'll get splotchy , nasty copper seams if you have any oxidation AT ALL on them when you apply the patina.

Hope this helps and diesn't confuse you. it works so well for me. I wouldn't give you any procedure that I don't use with success.

You don't need to get carried away, but good neutralizing and cleaning will prevent a lot of oxidation problems later. You'll be glad you developed good finishing habits.

-------------------------------------------

: I am a novice at stained glass and reading thru your postings I'm seeing mention of cleaning your final project. I use windex but am sensing I should be doing more. Do you clean before you patina or after? What is the best cleaner you recommend? Also, how do you get that bright shine on the solder, is there a special wax or technique?

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: Well, Betty, since nobody came along to give you an answer I'll tell you what I do. I'm going to assume that we're talking about foiled and soldered projects, because leaded stuff is prety much cleaned by the cementing/whiting processs. : First off, cleaning is not the problem it's NEUTRALIZING the flux that's the most important part. Flux is a strong acid and you need to counteract it with a strong basic substance to prevent the white crud you'll get from oxidation of the solder later. The BEST (and cheapest) neutralizer you can use is sudsy AMMONIA....from the supermarket...straight, undiluted. I squirt it on from a water bottle with a sports spout because if you spray it your nose will hate you. Rinse your panel (or whatever) with HOT water. Squirt on some ammonia and scrub with a soft brush. Rinse in HOT water...wash with non-oily detergent like the basic Dawn brand...scrub lightly with that brush and rinse again. Let it air dry. (best brush I've found is a soft tire cleaning brush I found in an auto store...sort of looped shaped...other than that you can get a soft kitchen brush) : You'll find that ammonia makes your solder seams shine like silver. If you stop here, you can wax with a good carnuba wax (Mother's car wax or Kem-O-Pro) and you're done. If you want to patina BLACK...apply patina with cotton balls or a piece of cloth...quickly on both sides. RINSE IMMEDIATELY with tepid water to get the excess Patina off the glass (it can stain some kinds of glass if allowed to dry before you rinse). Let the piece air dry (don't rub) and sit for 12 to 24 hours. Black or pewter Patina is also acid and needs to be neutralized after the waiting period. Repeat the ammonia and Dawn detergent washing steps...let it dry and wax. : There are commercial neutralizers, but they aren't as strong and are more expensive than ammonia. Some people neutralize with Baking soda (bicarb) but it too is not as strong as ammonia and leaves a powdery residue that's often a pain to remove. NOTHING will give you the silvery shine on solder seams that ammonia does. Your Windex was partly a good step because it contains ammonia but the straight ammonia application will do a better job. : ALWAYS apply patina immediately after you solder and clean. Solder begins to oxidize as soon as it cools. Do it the same day or you'll need to scrub your seams with something to get them clean of oxidation. Some people use steel woll but I prefer a green scrubbie pad which won't leave tiny bits of steel wool in the solder that can rust (though with good planning I've rarely had to do this). Best way is to plan to solder and patina the same day. : If you use Copper patina DO NOT rinse or use water or neturalizer after you apply it and don't let it sit. Copper is just a surface application, not an acid that works into the metal like Black patina. Apply it with an abrasive pad when possible and really RUB it into the solder. Just blot off the excess copper patina and wax immediately. Some people even use simichrome polish BEFORE they apply copper patina and wax after. You need pristine, unoxidized solder seams to get a good copper finish. Simichrome is more of a cleaner than a wax and it helps. You'll get splotchy , nasty copper seams if you have any oxidation AT ALL on them when you apply the patina. : Hope this helps and diesn't confuse you. it works so well for me. I wouldn't give you any procedure that I don't use with success. : You don't need to get carried away, but good neutralizing and cleaning will prevent a lot of oxidation problems later. You'll be glad you developed good finishing habits. : ------------------------------------------- : : I am a novice at stained glass and reading thru your postings I'm seeing mention of cleaning your final project. I use windex but am sensing I should be doing more. Do you clean before you patina or after? What is the best cleaner you recommend? Also, how do you get that bright shine on the solder, is there a special wax or technique?

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