Posted by Gary Dodge on May 22, 2002 at 22:29:22:
In Reply to: Aw, geez posted by Angel on May 22, 2002 at 12:53:47:
Guy seems to be a bit confused here.
He's mistaking flexibility for strength and they are WAY DIFFERENT!
If flexibility were the same thing as strength you'd be making all those lamps over at Somers in lead instead of foil, but you know just as well as I do the they'd just stretch under the gravity load and self destruct. Now there's strength for you.......NOT!!!!
If flexiblity were strength olympic gymnast Kerri Strug would hold the record for weight lifting, but she doesn't and never will. Different attributes, each better suited to different jobs.
If you need to take on the rigors of full weather exposure the weaker but more flexible came window is your better choice but if that is not an issue the foil window will be stronger, period. (If the came window were so strong why would you need all those bars to hold it up? Or do you want to tell me that they aren't necessary either, and you don't put them on YOUR VERY STRONG came windows?)
Guy, can you lift a 30" came window off a table without sliding it half way off and pivoting it off the table to avoid breaking glass? No. why not? Because it is flexible, not strong. You can do that with a properly reinforced foil window. Just lace it with unseen strong line or restrip or braid and it will have the rigidity to take it.
Gary Dodge
: It's that Somers kid again. He's moved from taking lunch money away from the little kids on his school playground to bullying aspiring glass artists. It mostly stems from that "all lead" problem. He's been exposed to lead since he crawled around the family shop, cutting his little teeth on lead came.
: Anybody who takes this latest pronouncement seriously needs a sense of humor transplant.
: Somers Tiffany does thousands of lamps in foil along with the windows in came. I'm betting it's a toss-up as to what they use the most of...came or foil. When strength equates to flexibility, as in unprotected windows, I'll go with Guy's silly, pseudo-arrogant statement. When it's plain, rigid strength along with lighter weight and flexibility of design, foil comes in a little bit ahead. Came pieces over a certain size need as much re-inforcement as foiled. Lead can sag without extra strengthening. We're talking apples and kiwis here.
: You have a CHURCH...use lead. You wanna make small windows lamps or cabinets...go with foil. Little Guy knows as well as anyody that each takes excellence of technique...and he also knows that he's talking mostly to hobbyists here...not Pros in production. Easy audience to intimidate. Hold on to your lunch money, kids.
: I just watched an old DVD of Monty Python's Holy Grail and one of the scenes in it applies here. Guy, I'm standing on the castle tower....I MOON in your direction...just wish I had a COW to catapult over the walls at you (too bad we can't play with the original dialogue here).
: Isn't ANYBODY going to debate this stuff? You foil people are just gonna SIT there and go..."hmmmmmm"? No guts...no interest and no fun, people.
: --------------------------------------
: : Now that's bad advice. I don't normally read this board but Gary, that's ridicules to tell someone that foil is stronger. Lead IS stronger because it is more flexible. Putty brushed into the lead also cushions the glass. 4' x 10-1/2" - snap, crackle & pop!
: : The only reason we suggest to our students & customers to work with foil is because they lack the talent and precision to work with lead came.
: : And so do most professional studios! All of our flat work is lead. Copperfoil is for lamps & small items and those who are not technically advanced.